Comments on: MentorNet #64 – Seven Essential Activities That Foster Church Multiplication

By: Chuck Stewart

Chuck Stewart — Sun, 01 Nov 2009 17:14:12 +0000

Seems to me that while there are many who would like to show how much of the bible they apparently know, along with the correct application of that knowledge, there is much time and effort wasted for doing other things that the angels of heaven can rejoice over!?
Just an observation!

By: Aaron

Aaron — Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:19:33 +0000

I am looking for the 7 Commands of Christ article. Can you post a link to it?
Thanks!
-Aaron

By: Justin Kuek

Justin Kuek — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 07:08:14 +0000

Hi David,

You are on the right track… yes it is about principles… and we really need to learn AND apply the truth that God’s Kingdom is far bigger than Religions, and that Jesus was NOT a Christian, Never set up the religion and Never asked anyone to become one! We seem to be so caught up with belief, while Jesus is only interested in people who KNOW and FOLLOW Him!

David, here are my answers to your questions… I will keep them short to allow you to ask/challenge more.

1. Ekklesia as the “Called ones of God” is a much bigger idea than a “Gathering”. It implies something we ARE, not just something that we DO… Seeing the church as a gathering is problematic because of the end focus… The resulting effect of that focus is invariably, a majority of consumer christians who do this: On a Holy day, they go to a Holy Place to hear a Holy man speak! This makes for a very weak church!

2. Discipling and Making Disciples. Let me give you a hint… Whose disciples are we making, and when have we made a disciple? This is HUGE… One implies that the responsibility of Discipling is OURs, the other states that it is God’s responsibility… It is like day and night!

3. Whatever the disciples end up doing (how theY meet etc), we must ensure that we are actually following Jesus with NEW WINESKINS… What are these wineskins? The Apostles made so many mistakes in bringing Old Testament principles into the New! For example the way they found God’s will was to cast lots…. and they refused to GO when Jesus clearly told them to…

4. The model that we follow in our local churches is found in what the Apostles said, “”It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of God in order to wait on tables…” The question I have for you is this… Did they do the right thing, and if so, where is the NT scriptural background for that? IF they were MISTAKEN, then our whole basis for the local church is also wrong!

Lots of food for thought no doubt!

Blessings,
JUSTIN

By: Bruce G.

Bruce G. — Sun, 02 Aug 2009 01:47:34 +0000

Good talk here… I’d have no problem teaching
ecclesia as ‘gathering.’ If this seems unacceptable,
Justin, maybe you can give us your perspective.
I’d also be interested in the distinction you’d
make between discipling and making disciples.
While there is NT no command to plant churches,
if our disciples are obeying the commands of
Jesus and the Apostles, they will certainly be
gathering together to hear the words
of Life, and pray, and minister to each other.
The more disciples you have, in more places,
the more gatherings you need for this to happen.
It seems to me that this is a lot of what is involved
in church planting. Just some thoughts…
Bruce

By: Meena

Meena — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 12:04:41 +0000

Hey Galen, ….. love your look……… :) :)

By: David McMullen

David McMullen — Sat, 01 Aug 2009 06:46:09 +0000

Although I early came to many of the same understandings as your “mentoring letters” indicate, I seemed so completely alone in my conclusions. With the result that I have found great difficulty in implementing them. Thanks for your continued ministry in all of this. One of the big problems that many of us have is the problem of vocabulary. “Christians” often speak what I have called “fundamentalese” I dialect which hardly anyone else in the world understands. I have found real fellowship with (for instance) Roman Catholic people who truly worship and follow Christ. That doesn’t make their churches doctrine right, or them unworthy of the fellowship of believers. I am sure that the same holds true for some who call themselves Hindu, or Muslim. In my “sheltered” life (missionary to Mexican Indian people) I have had less contact with Hindus and Muslims, but talking about principles here.

By: Ed

Ed — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:35:41 +0000

Hi Justing,

Why would I ever call you a "nut case" unless you actually have nuts in a case. In that case, if they are macadamia, I would ask for some!

As I said in my other reply, I have a major project I am working so a lengthy reply will have to wait.

The one thing right now. I never said following Christ was limited to Christianity. In India, I call myself a Jesu Bakh. If asked if I am a Christian, I confidently say "no". For those who throw stones at me, I brush it off. Christ never called us to be called Chrsitians. He called us to be disciples, followers. I don't think he cared. The key was obedience in love.

The key here is obedience to Christ in love. If someone says they are still Hindu but follow Christ, I would evaluate their life based on their loving obedience to Christ. If they still follow Hindu gods, then I have a point of sanctification to work with them

If a westerner says they are a Christian then I would evaluate their life based on their loving obedience to Christ. If they still treat money, comfort, instant gratification as gods, then I have a point of sanctification to work with them.

Same loving obedience, different context.

If the Hindu or Christian says it's just me and God and no one else..... I have a point of sanctification to deal with them...

Blessings Brother,

By: Justin Kuek

Justin Kuek — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:27:29 +0000

Hi Guys – WOW, quick and great replies!

Firstly, before anyone thinks I am a “nut-case” let me say I am no stranger to church planting… In our work, we got the same sort of results that the SBC go in Kampuchea (which led to the CPM thinking). So, I am not speaking from a lack of experience… we were doing church planting for about 23 years in Asia and Africa…

Now some Questions:

1. Ed, how did Ekklesia become “Gathering”? Ekklesia is “people” and they DO gather, but that is not the chief marker.

2. Are we called to “Make Disciples” or “to Disciple”? This may sound like splitting hairs, but it is a HUGE difference!

3. Where is the command for us to start churches?

4. Where is the scriptural backing for Muslims to become Christians in order to be considered to be part of God’s Kingdom?

5. Is the Kingdom of God only to be found within Christianity? If so, where is your scriptural proof? If not, what are the implications to what we do?

Blessings,
JUSTIN

By: Ed

Ed — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 20:05:34 +0000

Hi All,

Great interaction.

Justin, the article was written precisely for the reaching the people you mention – Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus.

The term “church” is merely used as a commonly understood word. Technically, it is ekklesia – gathering. Where the gathering is… Well, I would have tea in a tea shop eating a biscuit with my Indian brother, in India and we would be a Church celebrating the Lord’s supper.

We use this simple definition for church or gather or whatever other term that you might be comfortable with. “Where two or more are gathered in the name of Jesus to obey all of his commands in love.” References – Matt 16:18-20, Matt 18:18-20, Matt. 28:18-20, John 14:15, John 15:14

These steps, work all over the world. Not just from us thinking they will, but from us directly implementing them (or others we know personally) in various contexts – Hundu, Buddhist, Muslim, etc.

We are very serious in reaching the world and seriously look at what the Lord shows us and what the apostles implemented.

Planting seeds in not all there is to it. Jesus required to make disciples. Seed planting is more akin to evangelism. Evangelism is only a subset of making disciples. Christ also did not leave individuals. He left a body, an ekklesia. He sent disciples out two my two not one by one. He called for community.

Great discuss. Keep being a berean!

Blessings,

By: Galen

Galen — Fri, 31 Jul 2009 19:51:55 +0000

Hi, Justin,
Thanks for your reply and your query.
Currently, in many lands, it is precisely where ” Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism” dominate that “church planting” is happening fastest. Those communities require tens of 1000s of new, little churches, not the institutional kind of church that those in the West “go attend” to listen to musical performers and ill-prepared sermonizers.
The most effective way on earth to evangelize nonchristian communities remains the planting of new churches, lots of them, little ones in which participants experience the very presence of Christ, see prayers answered in Jesus’ name, get healed of spiritual, emotional and physical ailments, watch each other operate by gifts of the Holy Spirit, see guests fall under conviction of their need of Christ and get saved.
No, not even Christians need to go to church. Their need is to be a church, at home, or in Muslims’ homes. Here is a web link that explains better how you yourself could evangelize nonchristians by starting a church: http://www.StartaChurchNow.com
Galen